Make Stock Class - Stock!!!!

[motochuck]

The Time to start this is now. I would like to have every body give me your thoughts on this..... All (Novice) Stock classes will now be stock. You may change handle bars, grips, tray mats, period.
This way when a new racer shows up to run the boat they just bought off the show room floor they have a chance. Tell me what you think, Scott.

[Maulin Marto]

Those mods, plus plate and flo-grate?, just for the safety factor...If the boat handles better you have more control. 100% stock other than that.....no cheatski mods. On another note...Why does it have to be a novice class? What about a Vet/Masters or plain 2nd open stock class? Looks like you have to be a career novice to have some fun.

[fox river pwc]

Just thinking out loud here:

Is someone who leaves their ski 100% stock (except for handle bars, grip, and mats) likely to be the kind of person who wants to race?

Maybe.

However, I'm thinking someone who is more of a pwc enthusiast is more likely to want to race, so stock class should be structured to attract those kinds of enthusiasts - with rules that tend to line up with the same skis they already own and rec ride.

Realistically, not many pwc enthusiasts will buy a SXR or RXP-X, and leaves it bone stock, right? Even if they want to leave it 100% stock under the hood, for reliability (or whatever), they will commonly stick $500 (or so) into an intake grate, ride plate, and prop - so why not have a "stock" class for them?

My suggestion:

Stock Class:
100% stock under the hood, other than adding a bilge pump and primer. Maybe allow flame arresters and rejetting, since tuning should be allowed even in stock class, IMHO, and many ski owners yank the ugly stock flame arresters. Obviously, fuel injected 4-strokes wouldn't get rejetted anyhow, and I'd say leave the stock air intakes on them anyhow.

PUMP GAS for stock class. 93 octane max - period, end of story. Heck, if there was simply a fuel rule in stock class, like sport spec, it would already do a lot to curb the cost to build a stock class ski.

Mods allowed: Handlebars, throttle, grips, mats, ride plate, intake grate, impeller, billet bling (gas cap, bow eyes).

As for the runabouts, I don't know what to think about sponsons. I don't ride runabouts enough or pay close enough attention, but I assume sponsons make a huge handling difference - and maybe some runabouts could be much safer on a buoy course if the sponsons are changed?????? Also, sponsons are simple/easy to install and not terribly expensive.

Stand-ups - no tubbies in stock class. Once one racer spends the coin on them - or takes the time needed to do a proper install of the tubbies that cost less than the Deystroyers - then everyone winds up needing them.


Sport Class = no stock class needed. Already have the most fair class ever created, Sport Spec. If you wanna race a stock sport class ski, go buy an HX for $800-1000 - and if you wanna get crazy, you can stick another $500 in it.

[joe563]

I think expert and pro am should go by the rule book. or even just pro am.. if you run that class you know what your getting into... also if you go to any nat or world events you wont get your ass handed to you...

[spence-r]

I think its a good idea, I dont think we need novice stock, expert stock, pro am stock, masters stock, etc.
I dont think we need vet at all on tour for any class? Marto, josh, steve, etc are all just as fast as all the guys under 30 so it just splits them up

I wouldnt have our tour be different than the national, wf's etc. Then people have to change around set ups. How many people show up with new boats anyways? Its not like there are any super fast stock boats in novice class around here?

[CHOOCHOO]

I agree with Joe again.



I think expert and pro am should go by the rule book. or even just pro am.. if you run that class you know what your getting into... also if you go to any nat or world events you wont get your ass handed to you...

[Maulin Marto]

I think its a good idea, I dont think we need novice stock, expert stock, pro am stock, masters stock, etc.
I dont think we need vet at all on tour for any class? Marto, josh, steve, etc are all just as fast as all the guys under 30 so it just splits them up

I wouldnt have our tour be different than the national, wf's etc. Then people have to change around set ups. How many people show up with new boats anyways? Its not like there are any super fast stock boats in novice class around here?

What I'm saying for "stock ski" I think there could be 2 classes....Novice of course, and open? "club open"?. As it stands right now it is a novice only class. It could be a good "club racer" class for guys that are not novice and want to have some fun....with all the boats being super close in handling and speed it would be a true measure of skill, and of course be fun. That means I could race you Spence! Get it? :cool: I think 100% stock under the hood, no tubbies...stock prop, plate and grate. Bars, grips mat ok. Just a thought....

[fox river pwc]

How about Novice "box stock" (according to whatever stock we want to create) and Expert or Pro-Am Stock (according to IJSBA stock rules)??

Wouldn't that give new racers a chance to be competitive on "showroom stock" machines, yet keep all the serious "I'm racing the national races and WFs too" racers happy?

If you're a novice currently with a "stock" machine (according to current IJSBA rules), then you'd have to race it in Novice Limited or step up to Expert.

Acceptable?

Crazy?

The one issue I can see is novice runabout racers that like to race their "IJSBA stock legal" boats in novice stock and limited would now lose 1 of those classes.

[Chopper]

Stand-ups - no tubbies in stock class. Once one racer spends the coin on them - or takes the time needed to do a proper install of the tubbies that cost less than the Deystroyers - then everyone winds up needing them.



My 2 Cents on the topic of Stock (which marto already touched on with rideplates and intake grates)... Sponsons (AKA Tubbies, sidesponsons, destroyers, whatever). They are something that enhance the handling of a ski. This in turn enhances the potential of safety. Anyway we can keep racing safe we should. Therefore, I believe sponsons (whatever the IJSBA rule book deems legal) should be allowed in all classes period.

[Maulin Marto]

My 2 Cents on the topic of Stock (which marto already touched on with rideplates and intake grates)... Sponsons (AKA Tubbies, sidesponsons, destroyers, whatever). They are something that enhance the handling of a ski. This in turn enhances the potential of safety. Anyway we can keep racing safe we should. Therefore, I believe sponsons (whatever the IJSBA rule book deems legal) should be allowed in all classes period.

I'm down with that....again, I think a "Club Class" Might be the ticket? Who would commit? It would be a club class...and I say we pitch in so the top 3 at every race get some goofy prize...like steaks to take home for dinner, case of soda, beer etc. It could be a lot of fun!

[spence-r]

That would be fun! Do a club class and leave novice or pro am how it is in ijsba rule book.

people in novice class around here would build a bone stock boat to run in wisconsin then go to nationals and get burned

[Chopper]

I'm down with that....again, I think a "Club Class" Might be the ticket? Who would commit? It would be a club class...and I say we pitch in so the top 3 at every race get some goofy prize...like steaks to take home for dinner, case of soda, beer etc. It could be a lot of fun!

Well, since we are on the topic of "Clubs" and "Prizes" let the Prizes be admision to "Clubs" with a lapdance... Of course one rule for Club Class could be racer must be 21 years or older... Then Marto could throw in some Sparks for a Prize.

[fox river pwc]

Spencer, the idea of a "bone stock" novice class is really more to have a true entry-level class, to attract more/new racers - and to NOT really have to "build" a ski at all for the regional races.

If a novice has higher stock class aspirations than the GLWT, then they build an IJSBA legal stock-class ski and race it in limited on the GLWT. Then, if anything, they're BETTER prepared for national races and WFs.

To be clear, all my comments on this topic are based on:
A) What I think would "work best" on the regional level. As a racer who really doesn't aspire to anything greater than regional races, it seems to me like we need to grow regional racing before the higher levels can grow, right?
B) What I hear from all the rec riders I hang out with.

Personally, I basically never ride with racers except for when I show up at a race. However, I do ride with quite a few rec riders who express some interest in racing - but they want to be able to race the rec skis they already have - w/o feeling like they have zero chance of being competitive.

Not trying to be argumentative here, but aren't we talking about the topic of box stock to ultimately grow regional racing and get new/more blood into the sport? If not, then what is the purpose?

Yeah, tubbies are great for racing, but many of the rec riders I hang with hate mine and would never want them on their rec skis. If they become a "must have" mod for a box stock class, we risk limiting the potential somewhat, don't we? Just gotta give good thought now to where the lines are drawn.

Also, really gotta think about what regional racing should be about. Just because it's a stepping stone to nationals and WFs for some does not mean all have that in mind. Some just want to be weekend warriors an hour or two from home and nothing more. If we want more skis on the GLWT lines, then we need to keep these racers in mind, IMHO...

All the serious "real" racers will find a way to race regionally, and compete, and prepare for natl's/WFs, but the weekend warriors (and plenty of them) sure make the regional races (and the sport as a whole) better, right?

[Maulin Marto]

Well, since we are on the topic of "Clubs" and "Prizes" let the Prizes be admision to "Clubs" with a lapdance... Of course one rule for Club Class could be racer must be 21 years or older... Then Marto could throw in some Sparks for a Prize.

Oh yeah....Marto likey!

[motochuck]

I was talking mostly about Novice Class Ski, but Runabout should be in there to. We need to have entry level class that anyone can just bring what they have to try it out. We already have that for Vintage and look at how well that's done. The newer boats don't have a class like that for both Ski & Runabout. So that's what I'm talking about, not the Experts or Pro classes we have lots of classes for them.
I did post some comments on that too, in the other thread. I will paste it below.

Remember this is my thought on the class skill levels, please comment. SEE below.....


As for the class lists, its time for some of them to go. Plain and simple, the only reason for some of them is to sell titles. We don't have enough racers in the classes as it is.

Pro-Am class was made to give the guys with Pro cards a class to race in on the regional level when the National Tour disappeared years ago, now we have a national tour again.

Amateur Class !!!!! never under stood that one and nobody ever gave me a reason for it, except this -
If you are a Novice and want to race with the Experts, get a Expert card.
If you are Expert and want to race with the Pro's get a Pro card.
If you are a Pro and want to race a Novice or Expert.....W.T.F........ you get the drift.
I also started a post on stock class rules please go over to that one and share your thoughts. Thanks, Scott.

[jeepinxj]

My 2 Cents on the topic of Stock (which marto already touched on with rideplates and intake grates)... Sponsons (AKA Tubbies, sidesponsons, destroyers, whatever). They are something that enhance the handling of a ski. This in turn enhances the potential of safety. Anyway we can keep racing safe we should. Therefore, I believe sponsons (whatever the IJSBA rule book deems legal) should be allowed in all classes period.

Im with Chopper and a Club class would be awesome.

[Chopper]

So 3 of us want to Drink Sparks, Go to Clubs, and get Lap Dances all for racing in the "Club Class"... That's it?

Joe, you know we could maybe find a midget stripper for you, would that help?:confused:

[joe563]

Nobody said anything about midget stripers I am in..

[joe563]

So i see there isnt even a pro stock.. if we dont have that why the hell do we have the n/a classes get rid of them.. we need full lines i guess.. and i also see its 100... with pro am classes you could advertise there will be a pro class.. with out it you wont have it.. spectators would like to see a pro class over the other classes.. the only pay class for seadoo bounty is expert limited... whats the nauti classes???

[joe563]

also no beginner ???? how do expect to get new riders throwning them in with 5-6 year novice racers??? i see there are a bunch of diffrent ski classes.. 440-550-650-x2 bla bla bla

[spence-r]

One vintage! 440 550 650 750 x2!!! all together with stagered starts!

One beginner class for ski and runabout. Novice max 2 years in the class.

What about maybe no vet classes?? Josh what do you think? You steve, marty, etc can compete with any age group, i think it just splits it up more

[Maulin Marto]

One vintage! 440 550 650 750 x2!!! all together with stagered starts!

One beginner class for ski and runabout. Novice max 2 years in the class.

What about maybe no vet classes?? Josh what do you think? You steve, marty, etc can compete with any age group, i think it just splits it up more

Vet open is one of the, if not THE largest ski class on the tour, why would Scott get rid of it? Its definitely one of the most competitive classes as well. There was at least 5 to 6 on the line for Vet open at every race so where is the need to get rid of it? I'm all in favor of a 2 year novice limit...unless you really suck, you need to move up....quit sandbagging the novice ranks.

[spence-r]

Swap vet open for am open!!! Then even more people can run it
Let us young bucks get a shot at you guys

[joe563]

I agree with spencer on the vintage.. all junks on the line.. but no staggered start.. run what you brung.. we had what 2 650's no 440 and i cant remember a 550....you have a problem with that,spend another 200 bucks and buy a bigger boat.. boo hoo.. no need for all them classes.. cant get rid of vets.. its somthing for the older guys to run and dont have to worry about getting ran over. not you spencer in general..dont worry spencer you will be old soon enough ask any of us.. i was 17 a week ago..... i agree about the 2-3 year novice in runabout but not ski, some of us will never be expert no matter how long you run it.. there are some in runabout also.. there has to be a beginner class.. if a guys shows up for the first time and have to run with people that have been racing even 2 years there not coming back, you dont want to do things when you get your ass handed to you.. it also needs to be all season, have points and the whole deal.. everyone moves up in that class at the end of the year.. make it cheap and people will come back and spend the money later.. you cant stick it to a newbie and expect them to come back... i know scott hates the letters a and m but i really think pro am should stay,just for the simple reason that you can say that you have a pro race here at our little regional race in wisconsin.. you make it pro only and crank the price to 100 bucks you will have nothing but guys going other places.. with the drive,hotel,gas and food then you throw another 100 a class on top.. sure makes me want to stay home.. simple math.. 3.00 a gallon,100 for hotel a night, 100 beer and food (or more) 100 for one class.. your looking at a 4-500 weekend.. to race for nothing because the classes are not on the seadoo bounty so there is no chance of getting anything back.. 8 on line in our region is unheard of to get paid thats why its 8.. i forgot to metion 10-20k for each boat on line runabout....anyone want to buy an rxp-x

[Maulin Marto]

Swap vet open for am open!!! Then even more people can run it
Let us young bucks get a shot at you guys

Vet open is staying, I can assure you of that. Just ask King if he wants it gone? EB, Nannette,Dean(now that he is actually 30) lol! Hell, I'm 44 and I don't want it gone.....stop it already!

[Chopper]

Spencer, the cold must be freezing your brain, that or you are spending to much time huffing 4-stroke fumes... Stagered starts would be very dangerous. It works with a couple guys that are having fun at the lake training cause, they are not really racing... But a line full of amped up racers? No Go!- Could lead to an ePiC FaiL! And ditch the Vet Class? Dude, really? If it was not for vets still sticking around in this sport, watercross racing would have died a quick death. Which means that you SpennyPoo would not be racing period. Besides I have a Vet title to reclaim. Pro Ski GP needs to be Pro-Am Ski GP/Open... How many pro's race at regional events? But then again, Scott stated his case about Am's VS Pro's and it's his show.

[Maulin Marto]

Besides I have a Vet title to reclaim.

And I have one to defend...2011 will be a big year for vet class, everyone is bringing new equipment to the line, it will be the fastest ski class we have ever seen for sure. 1100 sxr's, Hydro's, I here a Hydrodoo...TZ may show up? ( I doubt it ) Chopper and King are amping, EB, Nanny,....all building, and your gonna freak on my game. I'm actually going to practice next season, not just show up and race....all winter to be in the gym, oh its on!

[STXRGirl]

hmmm...maybe ill break out "my" new SXR and give all you boys a run for your money in vets. ;) Take that 2011 title for myself beatches

[joe563]

What is soooo bad about a pro-am class?????? I really dont understand?? I know why it was made and bla bla bla so pro's running the nat tour can run a regional event .. Every region event,national event and world event will have pro am classes but we won't.... gay also to run a national event its 125 for 2 days here its 200 for 2 days..

[CHOOCHOO]

I agree with Joe 100% (WTF SCOTT!) (PRO REALLY!) ($100 REALLY!) More like just stupid. If you keep it cheeper you will make more. Dont ask me how but you will. But I will never race for more then $60 at a regional tour race again. I can and will go to a different tour.
Late, Craig

[joe563]

For the money we would spend we could do the nat. tour except west coast.. 2 classes 2 days $400, hotel 2 days $200 gas at 3.00 a gallon $200, food beer etc.. 200... I know you could shave a little off here and there,but thats still a ton of cash.. All of a sudden I really dont know what i am doing this year.. I never missed a race in the great lakes tour EVER..

[fox river pwc]

Dear Santa,

Please bring me a new telescope for Christmas, as I'd like to figure out what planet I am on. Also, I could use a good spare 13" radial tire for my new 4-place trailer, to keep me and my racer friends safe and secure while on the open road during 2011. Oh yeah, it would be nice if you could send the Packers to the Superbowl as well. :)

Thanks,
Paul

[Maulin Marto]

For the money we would spend we could do the nat. tour except west coast.. 2 classes 2 days $400, hotel 2 days $200 gas at 3.00 a gallon $200, food beer etc.. 200... I know you could shave a little off here and there,but thats still a ton of cash.. All of a sudden I really dont know what i am doing this year.. I never missed a race in the great lakes tour EVER..

I don't understand Joe. Do you have to be Pro to get sea-doo money? I thought you were classified as a expert and Craig is a novice right? Those are $60 classes. Plus, just sayin...Scott is offering %100 pay-out if you can get 8 people on the line per race. So if it was 100% plus sea-doo money your getting some bank back. Seems to me the driving force for next season would be to get all you RA guys to get in the same class...get 8 riders to commit to a pro class and you guys could have a great year. Maybe ask for the payouts right away? Is that possible?

[admin]

I am moving up to expert this year and will run the expert limited if money can be found to race it. I see Joe wants to do away with the N/A class, I dissagree with that. I have old junk as do others and would like to race against someone where I stand a chance to place well. I don't have the coin to toss at a 4-stroke yet and would like to continue to race what I have. If the N/A class leaves then I will also. There is a vintage ski class why not a R/A as well, just call it vintage R/A open. At least it is not split up into 3 seperate classes like it is at WF with the classic stock, limited, and open.

[spence-r]

Plus all you vet wheelchair racers can race Expert open instead. Then we can get a decent amount of people and maybe have enough for the payout!!!!!
No vet payouts, i dont get the point of the class. Why not just run normal exp/pro? Its only $10??????

[motochuck]

What is the matter with racing Expert when you have a Expert Card? We have Vets Runabout, Expert R/A Stock, Expert R/A Limited, Expert R/A Open and R/A NA or Classic, call it what you want.

THE CLASS LISTS ARE NOT SET IN STONE AS OF YET FOR THE 2011 RACE SEASON. SO NOW IS THE TIME TO GIVE YOUR INPUT, PLEASE USE REASON AND COMMON SENSE. I WILL LISTEN.

I would like to wish all of you a Happy Holiday season.
Sincerely, Scott.

[Chopper]

Spencer, you are not getting it. Some vet and masters racers only want to race other vet and masters racers. I personally don't care about racing racers of any age, but there are a lot of people who want to race with people they trust. So being 17 you don't understand. You will when ur older.

[joe563]

eason and commomn sense leave the 2 letters after pro so we can get paid.. easy we will never have 8 guys on line thats why he came up with that number.. we are lucky to get 5 for the seadoo pay out.. with my brand new boat i can run exp stock.. thats it i know there are other classes, but i dont have a limited or an open boat(my boat is a stock class boat) its not a 2 stroke cant run that.. so i can run a bs vets class with craig only and a stock class .. think i will stay home..

[joe563]

oh jb i dont want that class to go .. it just amkes as much sense as the rest of whats going on thats all..

[joe563]

seadoo last year paid pro-am stock,and pro-am open.. expert limited and exp open

[joe563]

if you get a pro card, at world finals you can only race on sat and sunday against factory sponsored teams.. they spend more money on them boats than we have into our whole tour.. really.. its really cool having a shot at them in the pro-am stock class.. i never thought i would be able to do that.. and if scott changes everything the way he wants nobody will again.. it doesnt really matter to me i am old and should be done any how.. but spencer you want that .. no stepping stone.. good enjoy....

[CHOOCHOO]

Once again I agree with JOE! (Leave it Proam) And leave the price fair to! None of this $100 stuff! I ran Vets because that is all I could afford! 14,000 for a RXPX dried me out!
Late, Craig


eason and commomn sense leave the 2 letters after pro so we can get paid.. easy we will never have 8 guys on line thats why he came up with that number.. we are lucky to get 5 for the seadoo pay out.. with my brand new boat i can run exp stock.. thats it i know there are other classes, but i dont have a limited or an open boat(my boat is a stock class boat) its not a 2 stroke cant run that.. so i can run a bs vets class with craig only and a stock class .. think i will stay home..

[Chopper]

Does anyone on the GLWT hold an official Pro Card?

[CHOOCHOO]

Nope, NO Pro riders here.
What I think this is about is the Seadoo Bounty. Seadoo pays out in Proam Stock (--- NOT--- Expert Stock.) and (----NOT----- Pro Runabout Limited) atleast not in regional racing. They payout in Expert Limited and Proam Open and Proam Stock. But we never had 5 guys on line for this but we might this next year. And Scott wants 8 guy to get a tour payout. When in 2008 that was 5 to get a tour payout but when we had 5 in 2009 Scott raised it to 8 what a joke.


P.S. Marty I have be a EXPERT since 2008.



Does anyone on the GLWT hold an official Pro Card?

[fox river pwc]

I could type a novel right now, but I'm gonna limit myself to a novella for the time being ;)...


Coming up with a common sense approach here is easy IF you embrace THE
most neglected concept about REGIONAL racing:

There are TWO types of racers who attend REGIONAL races:
Type A) Racers who aspire to (or hope to aspire to) bigger and better
things, like nat'ls/WFs.
Type B) Racers who only attend local races and just want to have fun and (hopefully) a chance to
be competitive.

Now remember, I'm only talking about REGIONAL racing here, because
frankly, isn't that all we should care about when discussing ways to
make GLWT events bigger and better? Think about it, besides
determining your skill level - Novice/Expert/Pro - how does anything
at the GLWT need to relate to nat'ls/WFs? When you check-in at
nat'ls/WFs, do they ask you what GLWT races/championships you've won?
No. Do they ask you the name of the GLWT classes you've raced (beyond
skill level)? No. Do they ask you what classes were combined to fill
lines that might have affected the outcome of those GLWT races? No.
Do they even ask if you've raced any regional/GLWT races? Probably
not. Long story short, the people who run nat'ls/WFs don't give a
rats ass what we do in our region, so why shouldn't we do whatever we
believe will work for us - even if it means we're not creating little
mini-mirror-images of nat'ls/WFs at each GLWT event? I just get this
feeling like somehow our "default" setting is to always try to "match
up" with what's going on at the national tour and WFs. WHY??? It
doesn't make any sense to me. With few exceptions, we don't have the
same caliber of racers and we certainly don't have the same caliber of
skis (as nat'ls/WFs) - so why create a REGIONAL tour that tries to
force-fit us into a mold made for a different crowd? Why not ignore
what goes on nationally and focus on the POTENTIAL racers and skis
that already exist in THIS region? Yes, we have vintage ski and runabout n/a, but
IMHO, we could benefit by taking some other steps in that same
direction. (IMHO, incorporating "showroom stock" classes, at least for the Novices and Type B racers IS a step in the right direction.)

Now, back to the point of Type A and Type B regional racers. We have
to ask ourselves another question.

Do we believe that there are enough Type A racers in this region to
make a successful regional tour?

If your answer is "yes", then we just need to keep going in the
direction of making GLWT races into mini nat'ls/WFs each weekend.

If your answer is "no", then we need to discuss ways to REALLY attract
as many Type B races as possible. After all, where do most Type A
racers start out as anyhow - Type Bs, right?

[fox river pwc]

Common sense:

1) Offer the Sea-Doo bounty classes and TAKE all the money SD will dish out. In the current state of pwc racing and such abismal amounts of sponsorship dollars, I can't imagine passing up on ANY free money - regardless of who the checks are made out to!! More sponsorship money = more racers who can afford to keep racing.

2) REGIONAL racing SHOULD be the entry level of the sport (or at least INCLUDE the entry level of the sport), yet we use the same rules and generally offer many of the same classes as the nat'l events and WFs. There is no real thought given to delevoping entry level classes or structure at nat'ls/WFs cuz they don't need/want entry level racers at the premier events of the sport. We need to REALLY evaluate what it would take to create a vibrant entry-level system that works for US. Yes, I've seen some good ideas thrown out on this topic that could work, but it needs to be completely thought out and effectively implemented to make it work.

[fox river pwc]

Does anyone on the GLWT hold an official Pro Card?

Nope, but perhaps, if you offer PRO, they will come?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHTsQ9qePrQ

[fox river pwc]

More common sense:

Keep a realistic idea of who our spectators (or more correctly, potential spectators) are? Do they really care/notice what race is what or who is who out on the track? Are more spectators gonna come and watch just cuz some of us call ourselves PROS? Or, do they just wanna see full lines and close action? I don't know about everybody else, but I've talked to more than a few spectators at our races - and most of them are pretty blown away by what we do and already assume we are all pros. I guess that means we should all be getting paid then, huh ;)????

[fox river pwc]

Common Sense:

Offer classes that bring in racers, and if the classes aren't full enough to create exciting action, then just combine classes to fill the lines. If necessary, COACH your racers to set their egos aside at REGIONAL races and race safer and smarter when classes are combined. After all, it's BETTER PRACTICE for the faster Type A racers anyhow, who then have racers they have to pass/lap and more race chop to race in. Make it clear (with real penalties) that hitting lappers isn't acceptable - as that only drives more potential racers away.

If racing for blood at regional races helps to grow regional racing, then allow it to happen. If it causes more people to stay away than it attracts, then put a stop to it.

[fox river pwc]

I'm gonna get to 1,000 posts one of these days, Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fox river pwc]

Wishful thinking:

Glue a mustache on spencer and give him a fake ID, so he can race vets, on the 550 he's building...


edit: Glue a mustache on spencer and give him a fake ID AND ARTHRITIS, so he can race vets, on the 550 he's building...

[joe563]

If you want the sport to grow.. have a begginer class.. i know if i just came to this sport and was thrown in a class with a bunch of experienced riders and got my ass handed to me i am not coming back.. have the box stock class, i think its a waste of time... think about it,, how many people do you know that rec ride and there isnt anything done to there boat.. maybe i am wrong dont know.. it might work in ski class.. call the n/a class the outlaw class... sounds cooler.. more would enter it.. expert and pro -am classes use the same as the tour, we can get paid and them are the people that do travel... i was thinking about it.. scott said i am not catering to the 5 people who go to nationals and world finals.. we lets see.. not including racine.. runabout racers.. brad craig,ken,derek,susan,kevin,luke,tylerand myself.. i am sorry if i missed you thats 9 racers in runabout that have been to nats or world in the last 2 years.. we all run at least 2 classes in scotts tour.. thats a minimum of 18 entry fees just in runabout.. you change the rules here you just screwed everyone of us over..

[CHOOCHOO]

I agree with Paul.



Common sense:

1) Offer the Sea-Doo bounty classes and TAKE all the money SD will dish out. In the current state of pwc racing and such abismal amounts of sponsorship dollars, I can't imagine passing up on ANY free money - regardless of who the checks are made out to!! More sponsorship money = more racers who can afford to keep racing.

2) REGIONAL racing SHOULD be the entry level of the sport (or at least INCLUDE the entry level of the sport), yet we use the same rules and generally offer many of the same classes as the nat'l events and WFs. There is no real thought given to delevoping entry level classes or structure at nat'ls/WFs cuz they don't need/want entry level racers at the premier events of the sport. We need to REALLY evaluate what it would take to create a vibrant entry-level system that works for US. Yes, I've seen some good ideas thrown out on this topic that could work, but it needs to be completely thought out and effectively implemented to make it work.

[fox river pwc]

If you want the sport to grow.. have a begginer class..
Agreed, in principle. I have a different idea for a "entry-level" class that would also allow novice Type B racers to remain (more on that in a sec). One risk we run with a pure beginners class is we can't count on a fixed level of participation just yet.


i know if i just came to this sport and was thrown in a class with a bunch of experienced riders and got my ass handed to me i am not coming back..
Agreed 1000%.


have the box stock class, i think its a waste of time... think about it,, how many people do you know that rec ride and there isnt anything done to there boat.. maybe i am wrong dont know..
Part of what scares new racers from the current stock class is that the rules now "force" you to build a boat that isn't all that reliable - if you want to be competitive. Yep, the Type A racers will build those 75+ mph "stock" boats and deal with the repairs, but someone interested in trying racing is less likely to do that. I think if you look at trends for rec boats, lots of rec riders are likely to leave them stock under the hood, especially with the 4 strokes, but they'll install props/pump wedges/intake grates/ride plates/sponsons. Maybe the answer is to make a class that is Novice Boosted Box Stock combined with Novice N/A Limited? That would allow beginners and novices with "reliable" box stock supercharged/turbocharged machines to race as well as a new racer that maybe has a GPR or XPL or Ultra150 with limited type mods??? Yeah, the newer stock boosted boat still has an advantage, but the competition in that kind of class shouldn't be nearly as intense as the rest anyhow...it should be a stepping-stone class (aka, entry-level).

Then, we also offer Amateur Stock - which would follow IJSBA stock rules. That way the "experienced" novice racers with boosted 4 strokes built to IJSBA rules could race Amateur Stock and Novice Limited - since getting them out of the current Novice Stock class should help to give new racers (and racers who don't want to mod their boosted 4 strokes) a class to have a chance in.

I dunno, I just keep thinking how it's kinda crazy that you can buy a brand new RXP-X or FZR and not have a class to race it in w/o modding it to be competitive. That's a major problem that needs repair, IMHO, and I don't see the IJSBA doing anything to repair it anytime soon.


Then, everything else on the runabout side can stay the way it's been. Offer all the bounty classes, vets if you want, N/A if you want, Womens if you want, 800s if you want. Then, when no one else shows up for Sport Spec, I can just pick which runabout class I want to get runover in ;););)...

[motochuck]

umm OK, keep talking I'm listen

[motochuck]

So you like to see Pro-Am class stay for R/A. For Ski we will look at a Novice Ski Stock class that only lets you do the basic changes. Ride plate, intake grate, handle bars, grips, mats. No mods under the hood, no water routing, no carb changes, includes flame arrester, nothing. All other Novice ski boats go to limited class, some what like it used to be.

[motochuck]

Pay outs like 50% of paid entry to top 3 racers under 10, top 5 over 10 racers, top 10 over 20 racers. For Pro-Am, Expert at all events. Would that work mother trucker? lol AKA-big money.

[Chopper]

mother trucker? lol AKA-big money.

You makin fun of the lot lizzard hunter on here?

[CHOOCHOO]

The lot lizzards are hibernating. LOL

[CHOOCHOO]

How many total racers are needed on line? Is it still 8 or is it less? Other then that looks good. What you say Joe?



Pay outs like 50% of paid entry to top 3 racers under 10, top 5 over 10 racers, top 10 over 20 racers. For Pro-Am, Expert at all events. Would that work mother trucker? lol AKA-big money.

[joe563]

Sounds to me like under 10 there is a payout to top 3.... very nice.. thanks for keeping pro-am.. hard to give up seadoo money.. also its the class we have been in for the last few years.. we all need to be on tha same page for the racing next year, we all race classes to make them big.. i want exp limited pro-am stock.. 2 seadoo classes to pay classes and if jb and others are moving up they will be on line with us.. just good times.... this is what i have.. exp limited.. brad,craig,ken,jb,and i and maybes( valek,fegals) thats 5 for sures and positive seadoo cash.. boo ya. is derek staying novice? also matt( with the new boat) kevin? ity could be a big line hell thats 10.. krazy

[joe563]

also a box stock class the rxp-x would mop the floor with any other brand... it would be ugly.. not that it matters just saying..

[spence-r]

Sounds awesome scott, training just went into overdrive

[admin]

Expert limited will be a tough one for me. Have to wait for you guys to slip up on your supercharged boats to have a chance. Maybe I really need to step up my search for a set of tripples. Hmm the wife is not going to be happy with me. And if the box stock rxp-x is truely a box stock, i mean no ECU allowed it might be close with some of the N/A boats on our tour if combined. I say keep the N/A the way it is.

[joe563]

Call the n/a class the outlaw class.. it sounds soo much cooler.. get the triples and lets get it on jb.. boo ya box stock isnt in the exp or pro-am classes.. i am not buying a stock ecu ugly if i could get it used i would just for rec riding. but they are around 700 i also like the price change on the web site... exp 60 pro am 70.. i am all in.. good times

[Chopper]

Sounds awesome scott, training just went into overdrive

Thats funny coming from a kid who says that surfing is too much work.

[spence-r]

I worked out twice yesterday totaling 4 hours.

[Chopper]

I worked out twice yesterday totaling 4 hours.

Right. Working your jaw at the Gym, and your fingers on a keyboard doesn't count. Not to mention 4 hours is a waste of time. I've pointed you in the right directon for training numorus times, no where does it say to workout for 4 hours. That is unless you are working on building a good aerobic base by doing low intesity aerobic activity with your heart rate in Zone 2. If you truely are doing 4 hours of constant working you'll be burnt out before the ice is melted from around your floating house. There is a saying out there that says to "Train Smarter, Not Harder" Which is tricky cause nothing will replace hard work, but just working hard is most likely a waste, it's working hard in the areas that make sense that is important, along with getting the proper rest to allow recovery. Rest is not sitting on the couch either.

[admin]

Lets call it outlaw non turbo open like the nauti guys do. I forgot I have a carbon hood and will be banned from the exp limited class. Unless that is my equalizer to be abel to run up against the 4strokers.


Call the n/a class the outlaw class.. it sounds soo much cooler.. get the triples and lets get it on jb.. boo ya box stock isnt in the exp or pro-am classes.. i am not buying a stock ecu ugly if i could get it used i would just for rec riding. but they are around 700 i also like the price change on the web site... exp 60 pro am 70.. i am all in.. good times

[spence-r]

2 hours of weights and high intensity and 2 hours of balance and stability, using bosu balls, medicine balls, etc.

[Chopper]

2 hours of weights and high intensity and 2 hours of balance and stability, using bosu balls, medicine balls, etc.

Ur too cool for me dude. Where can I see Master Spencer in training? LOL!

[spence-r]

What? You made fun of me so I told you what I did

I was just making a fun remark about training more, that there is a chance to win some money!!!

haha, uh at my school or YMCA, doubt we will cut wood at steves in the winter?

[joe563]

JB i am sure the tech guy will over look the hood your all good,my man all good indeed.... Also if you want to dump a runabout class dump expert stock.. its not a pay class and its not on tour.. that would leave expert limited and open pro am stock and open with the other of course..

[Chopper]

What? You made fun of me so I told you what I did

I was just making a fun remark about training more, that there is a chance to win some money!!!

haha, uh at my school or YMCA, doubt we will cut wood at steves in the winter?

It's easy to train hard, it's hard to train smart.

[Chopper]

Now here is an interesting photo of a "Stock" ski... Duh!:eek:

[spence-r]

ha, never saw that photo. Thats one of the austrailian kids. Good thing it didnt stay tipped like that!

[Chopper]

I thought you might get a chuckle from that.

[Maulin Marto]

Very funny....That could cost you plenty if it sinks. Glad it didn't.